#31  
Old 02-07-2010, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Originally Posted by osssyvan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jethro_static View Post
I have an 8 gig MicroSD on my phone and don't need anything bigger. Iphones got 32 gigs which is the limit for micro SD in WM. What do U need the SD card for? extra storage? Well, A caveman can use one of those. I use remote access to my PC at home. I will certainly have a Multi touch in trade of SD cards.
All other things will come to the Apple device. Just not on the first release. This is what people failed to understand and I keep on repeating myself.
About that SD slot:
How about getting pictures from a camera or easily transferring some files across devices? And multi-touch and SD can be in a same device...
Apple does not deal with SD card coz I think they think it's a cheap technology. I will put my pictures on my PC at home and view it on my device thru remote access. If there is a reason that transferring a pic from the SD to the device is necessary, I cannot think of one. It's each to their own.
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  #32  
Old 02-07-2010, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Originally Posted by empowering View Post
let me give you another example, SDHC.

It can theoretically hold 2048MB but the standard defining the file system limits it to 32GB. This not is a result of technological limitations. We have hard drives in the terabytes, and OSes to handle such capable file systems for years.
So instead of mirroring today's file system standard that would suffice for many years ahead as flash memory sizes increase, they purposefully repeat the small incremental steps taken the first time around by limiting the file system in each revision of the SD Standard.

This year, we have a new SD standard called SDXC that allows for capacities greater than 32GB. Of course SDHC device aren't forward compatible. This is planned so that even though your device is sufficient for your needs in every single aspect, you will have to replace it if you want to put in more memory.

Then of course, you'll have to replace all your other SDHC devices just so you can get media exchangeability.

This is all planned out to artificially oil the wheels of commercialism. I love commercialism, but not when it's artificially driven by such schemes.
Thank you for the information. Like I said before. I have 8 gigs on my phone. I dont need more than that. half of that 8 gigs is composed of my maps in 8 GPS software that I have. Then more than a terrabyte of media is left at home and accessible by my phone anytime, Anywhere. It is also accessible by any device with a browser.
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  #33  
Old 02-07-2010, 05:22 PM
empowering empowering is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

And 640kB is all that you need.

Seriously, DVD was all that you needed to store a full length movie, now the same DVD can't even hold 10% of today's full length movie.

Foresight will tell you that those maps, movies, games, programs you have in your 8GB card right now will all inflate in a few years, to levels beyond your 8GB card. You do remember Palm OS applications were all practically <1MB right? Who needed more than 1GB on Palm OS? So you could have made the same argument for a 1GB card a few years ago.

One of my PDAs, the HP iPAQ HX4700, with its VGA (640X480) screen, 624MHz X-Scale processor, a piece of >4 year old hardware is still on par with today's mobile PDA standard (not to mention being ahead of the standard for a couple years after release). But guess what, I can't use it to store much because it only supports 4GB SD standard 1.0. Luckily, it's got a CF slot that allows me to store a SDHC adapter! Can't say the seem for Apple devices. Sadly, even the ancient HP iPAQ HX4700 is far more tweakable than the Apple iTouch.

Last i checked, I can install WM6.1, exchange the battery, upgrade the ram, A2DP, copy and paste, work in VGA. This is the kind of device design that allows consumers to use it beyond what companies would like to define as a their product life cycle.

Companies that design devices with the intention of pushing their definition of a product life cycle (1 year?) on us are despicable.

Instead of designing devices for Modularity like the iPAQ that allow customers to upgrade components for continued usage beyond product life cycle, they want to us to perpetually line their wallets as we throw away our, disposable devices the first moment they come out with something new.

We have a wasteful disposable world to drive the disposable economy. This is bad for the environment, bad for consumer freedom.

Last edited by empowering; 02-07-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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  #34  
Old 02-07-2010, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Originally Posted by empowering View Post
And 640kB is all that you need.

Seriously, DVD was all that you needed to store a full length movie, now the same DVD can't even hold 10% of today's full length movie.

Foresight will tell you that those maps, movies, games, programs you have in your 8GB card right now will all inflate in a few years, to levels beyond your 8GB card. You do remember Palm OS applications were all practically <1MB right? Who needed more than 1GB on Palm OS? So you could have made the same argument for a 1GB card a few years ago.

One of my PDAs, the HP iPAQ HX4700, with its VGA (640X480) screen, 624MHz X-Scale processor, a piece of >4 year old hardware is still on par with today's mobile PDA standard (not to mention being ahead of the standard for a couple years after release). But guess what, I can't use it to store much because it only supports 4GB SD standard 1.0. Luckily, it's got a CF slot that allows me to store a SDHC adapter! Can't say the seem for Apple devices. Sadly, even the ancient HP iPAQ HX4700 is far more tweakable than the Apple iTouch.

Last i checked, I can install WM6.1, exchange the battery, upgrade the ram, A2DP, copy and paste, work in VGA. This is the kind of device design that allows consumers to use it beyond what companies would like to define as a their product life cycle.

Companies that design devices with the intention of pushing their definition of a product life cycle (1 year?) on us are despicable.

Instead of designing devices for Modularity like the iPAQ that allow customers to upgrade components for continued usage beyond product life cycle, they want to us to perpetually line their wallets as we throw away our, disposable devices the first moment they come out with something new.

We have a wasteful disposable world to drive the disposable economy. This is bad for the environment, bad for consumer freedom.

regular SD cards ends at 2GB. SDHC starts at 4GB. Now, Older card readers cannot read an SDHC on XP. XP should be patched. However, It will be read on vista w/o any patching. WM 5 on the other hand have 2GB limitations. WM 6.0 and up added support for SDHC. It is not the hardware. It's the software. You will not see a Mini SD card that has more than 2GB capacity bcoz the Mini SD did not go far so nobody bothered to make an SDHC Mini SD.
Having installed an 8gig storage on an Ipaq is not enough reason for anybody to choose the 4 year old device than an iPod touch. The 3D engine of the iPod touch will murder the iPaq's graphics hands down. like I said, there is always a trade.


I replace my phone every year. I do not use a 4 year old PDA anymore. Seems like Your problem is buying a new device yearly. You want a device that you will use for ten years bcoz of the compatibility. I guess Apple products is not for you. And it does not mean Apple products are a POS and Apple is Evil. Apple laptops are recyclable. There are no other laptops that are green. See, Apple is saving the planet too if that is your problem.
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  #35  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

One more example. The 1st gen Iphone came out around when HTC Mogul came out. HTC Mogul has Micro SD, removable battery, copy and paste ect ect. HTC Touch came out a little later than the 1st gen iPhone. Now 2 years later. Mogul and Touch(vogue) are on the brink of extinction. There are only few who uses this devices. I had them and I've move on a long time. The 1st gen iPhone on the other hand are still on circulation.It is still 250 and up on ebay. A lot of people still use them esp. on T-mo. Wow. Seems like they became obsolete faster than the iPhone. Will putting a 500GB on a mogul gives it a second life?

Now, how did their technology advance? HTC Mogul became HTC Touch pro.what's the difference? a higher resolution, more ram, more memory, same OS. All bugs and flaws are carried to the Touch Pro. They both have a ridiculous battery problems. Now, giving the touch pro the ability to read a 500gb memory card, Will people be interested to buy it again?
Now Touch pro became Touch Pro 2. What is the difference? They are exactly the same hardware. HTC just made the screen bigger and make the resolution higher. Same OS. SAme bugs and flaws. Seems like these Companies are also giving consumers incremental upgrades and yet, Only Apple is Evil?

From your iPaq to the Touch pro2, They are Using a card reader. And the technology is advancing that way? They did not change anything! they just made the iPaq read a higher capacity card. LOL.
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  #36  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

I'm certain SDHC vs SD 1.0 is as much a hardware issue as a software one. Something about the low level addressing scheme that changed beyond just FAT32 vs FAT16.

Even on Windows 7, you have to have a SDHC memory card compatible reader to be able to read SDHC.

Personally, I have no problem upgrading devices that bring substantial technological improvement. I upgrade my video card every major revision. 1900XT --> 8800GTX --> 280GTX. The technological improvements are well documented, easily quantifiable, and apparent. However, I opted to skip the intermediary steps like 9800GTX or 285GTX because the improvements were as many noted marginal to non-existent. Due to this fiercely competitive video graphics industry, I'm assured that I get the best technology known to man at a given price range for my money, with no companies holding back for the next revision or use restriction (aside from the physx blockage).

Same applies to other computing hardware such as phones and mp3 players. I upgrade because of real technological advances not newly integrated decade old features such as A2DP, SMS or copy and paste that my previous device alright has. Companies holding back functionality of devices just to get you to buy more services later just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

It's as immoral as Bluetooth lock down by carriers to force people to transfer thru their data plan.

The above also stands to address your subsequent post.

I would certainly upgrade from a HTC Touch (vogue) to a HTC Touch HD. Since there are substantial leaps in technology. Granted it uses the same buggy OS, but I can see where my money went when I look at the greater resolution, faster web surfing, accelerometer, dual video cameras. Can't quite say the same for iPhone 3G and 3Gs.
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  #37  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

Popularity of a device, price it's sold for doesn't vindicate a manufacturers motives. I understand most people don't even know what OS or SD or Bluetooth are. But every layman can be lured by, brand equity, trendy commercials, friendly use GUI.

After all, what is the difference between an HTC Touch HD and an iPhone if one isn't aware of such technologies? Namely, flashiness of GUI and Brand.

Marketing, GUI user friendliness, assisted by the public's general disregard of technological features / significance can account for Apple's popularity, and is what Apple has succeeded in, not technological improvement.
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  #38  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

I will also recognize that not every increment in HTC phones are worth upgrading. But the difference is, at a given price range of any given generation, HTC has integrated the best of whats available. Why doesn't Apple do the same?
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  #39  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by empowering View Post
I'm certain SDHC vs SD 1.0 is as much a hardware issue as a software one. Something about the low level addressing scheme that changed beyond just FAT32 vs FAT16.

Even on Windows 7, you have to have a SDHC memory card compatible reader to be able to read SDHC.

Personally, I have no problem upgrading devices that bring substantial technological improvement. I upgrade my video card every major revision. 1900XT --> 8800GTX --> 280GTX. The technological improvements are well documented, easily quantifiable, and apparent. However, I opted to skip the intermediary steps like 9800GTX or 285GTX because the improvements were as many noted marginal to non-existent. Due to this fiercely competitive video graphics industry, I'm assured that I get the best technology known to man at a given price range for my money, with no companies holding back for the next revision or use restriction (aside from the physx blockage).

Same applies to other computing hardware such as phones and mp3 players. I upgrade because of real technological advances not newly integrated decade old features such as A2DP, SMS or copy and paste that my previous device alright has. Companies holding back functionality of devices just to get you to buy more services later just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

It's as immoral as Bluetooth lock down by carriers to force people to transfer thru their data plan.

The above also stands to address your subsequent post.

I would certainly upgrade from a HTC Touch (vogue) to a HTC Touch HD. Since there are substantial leaps in technology. Granted it uses the same buggy OS, but I can see where my money went when I look at the greater resolution, faster web surfing, accelerometer, dual video cameras. Can't quite say the same for iPhone 3G and 3Gs.
Thank you for pointing that out. Vogue to touch HD. the link between the vogue and the HD is the iPhone. iphone is the first to come out with accelerometer, faster web browsing, greater resolution and a bigger screen on a phone. if iPhone did not come out with this features, We will prolly still be using a 2.8' screen. Iphone showed everyone why a Phone should be like the iPhone.

Cannot quite say the same with 3g and the 3gs
Vogue in the U.S. did not become HD. it became the Diamond.
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  #40  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:10 PM
empowering empowering is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

Faster web browsing is due to Apple's closed system that allow them to make device specific optimizations that an open platform simply couldn't have. XBOX 360 performs some games faster than a PC 4 times it's price, but it doesn't mean the XBOX 360 is technologically superior or can match the PC as an open device. WM devices have no Jail to break.

Greater resolution, Accelerometer, and bigger screen? Well, the iPhone 1 released in 2007 had 3.5" 320 x 480 screen. HTC Advantage (with accelerometer), I-Mate Ultimate 6150, to name a few, released at the same time, had 640 x 480 5", 2.8" VGA screens respectively. This is on top of the standard hardware that we've come to expect from WM devices. (ie: SD slot, megapixel camera, removable battery).
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  #41  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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I will also recognize that not every increment in HTC phones are worth upgrading. But the difference is, at a given price range of any given generation, HTC has integrated the best of whats available. Why doesn't Apple do the same?
HTC is playing catch up. Vogue doesn't have an Accelerometer and Diamond has. It's an upgrade sure. But iPhone already had the accelerometer before the vogue. So now, iPhone did not upgrade?
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

Vogue isn't in the same class for comparing to iPhone. In fact it was released later than iPhone 1 and cheaper than it's older WM predecessors targeted as your basic WM smartphone. iPhone is marketed to be an uber phone. And in the uber category, there are many WM phones more technologically advanced than the iPhone.
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Originally Posted by empowering View Post
Faster web browsing is due to Apple's closed system that allow them to make device specific optimizations that an open platform simply couldn't have. XBOX 360 performs some games faster than a PC 4 times it's price, but it doesn't mean the XBOX 360 is technologically superior or can match the PC as an open device. WM devices have no Jail to break.

Greater resolution, Accelerometer, and bigger screen? Well, the iPhone 1 released in 2007 had 3.5" 320 x 480 screen. HTC Advantage (with accelerometer), I-Mate Ultimate 6150, to name a few, released at the same time, had 640 x 480 5", 2.8" VGA screens respectively. This is on top of the standard hardware that we've come to expect from WM devices. (ie: SD slot, megapixel camera, removable battery).
advantage cannot be compared to an iPhone because you will never see anybody lug a 5 inch phone. Imate does not have an accelerometer and having a 2.8" VGA screen is useless because the finger friendliness goes away.
WM have no jail to break, But in order for a WM phone to function properly is to overhaul the whole OS and flash it to the phone.

The difference between an xbox and a PC is the software hardware interaction. PC's software deals with a lot of DLL's before even communicating to the hardware for 1 task. While an Xbox 360's OS is on the chip that communicate directly to the hardware.

Last edited by jethro_static; 02-07-2010 at 08:26 PM.
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  #44  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Vogue isn't in the same class for comparing to iPhone. In fact it was released later than iPhone 1 and cheaper than it's older WM predecessors targeted as your basic WM smartphone. iPhone is marketed to be an uber phone. And in the uber category, there are many WM phones more technologically advanced than the iPhone.
WM phone never had a good 3D engine. As a matter of fact, Touch pro 2 still doesn't have the graphics driver to perform OpenGL. WM users are asking for this since the kaiser. Until now, HTC is still deaf.
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  #45  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

O2 XDA Flame maybe a better comparison, it has 3.6" VGA screen, all standard WM hardware. Granted compared to the iPhone, it lacked an accelerometer, but was released almost a year earlier faster processor, megapixel autofocus dual cam. Most of the other technology (ie: accelerometer) while not implemented on this phone was in others. So you see, Apple's hardware implementation wasn't anything new, even at the time.

Aside from the GUI revolution, Apple is not a technological leader. Basically, WM seems hover on the edge of technology, while Apple plays it safe.
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