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Old 02-07-2010, 08:34 PM
empowering empowering is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Vogue isn't in the same class for comparing to iPhone. In fact it was released later than iPhone 1 and cheaper than it's older WM predecessors targeted as your basic WM smartphone. iPhone is marketed to be an uber phone. And in the uber category, there are many WM phones more technologically advanced than the iPhone.
WM phone never had a good 3D engine. As a matter of fact, Touch pro 2 still doesn't have the graphics driver to perform OpenGL. WM users are asking for this since the kaiser. Until now, HTC is still deaf.
Yes, that is a pity. It seems to depend on the device you get. Some models are licensed with the Quadcom 3d drivers, others aren't. That was a mess.
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  #47  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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O2 XDA Flame maybe a better comparison, it has 3.6" VGA screen, all standard WM hardware. Granted compared to the iPhone, it lacked an accelerometer, but was released almost a year earlier faster processor, megapixel autofocus dual cam.

Aside from the GUI revolution, Apple is not a technological leader. Basically, WM seems hover on the edge of technology, while Apple plays it safe.
I cannot call flame a technologically advanced phone than an iPhone. The screen is actually 4" inch , It has a nvidia graphics, But the phone is super heavy and bulky and the battery is terrible. The graphics is useless coz nobody will develop a graphically centered App just for 1 device at the time. The HD now is a lot better than the flame except the graphics. And HD is not advanced than an iPhone.
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  #48  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:56 PM
empowering empowering is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

Yes, there are more developers for the iPhone. Reason being, on a closed system, you how exactly how your software will perform on the targeted device. As a result you will have more developers for your system. So of course you'll see more games working properly and more beautifully on the iPhone as a result of this.

Same with PS3 vs PC. You can see better graphics on the 3 year old PS3 than you can on todays DX11 video cards triple the price. But it doesn't mean the PC is technologically inferior to the PS3.

In the case of graphics chipset on the iPhone VS HTC's offerings, there isn't much difference in video hardware. Providers are either QuadCom's integrated or nVidia. The difference lies in the number of developers willing to develop and optimize for your device.
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  #49  
Old 02-07-2010, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

Like I said, Game consoles and PC's cannot be compared. Because they function differently. It's the interaction between the software and hardware. Game consoles only do 1 thing. To play games. But now, they added a little more internet features. PC's are for everything. Game consoles OS communicate directly withthe hardware while PC's OS deals with a lot of DLL's b4 communicating with the hardware for just 1 task.
Nothing is more advanced than the 2 just because they are not on the same category. But do not think that game consoles are not as advanced. As a matter of fact, PS3's CPU can power a super computer.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/PS3...uter,5688.html

About the manufacturers being willing to optimize the capability of their hardware, They are the ones that hinders the advance of technology. A developer will not develop an app if the hardware is crippled for their app.

BTW, it's Qualcomm.
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Old 02-07-2010, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

To give you an Idea how advanced iPhone's Graphics against the competors.

Nintendo DS: 120,000 triangles/s, 30 M pixels/s

PowerVR MBX-Lite (iPhone 3G): 1 M triangles/s, 100 M pixels/s

Samsung S3C6410 (Omnia II): 4 M triangles/s, 125.6 M pixels/s

ATI Imageon (Qualcomm MSM72xx): 4 M triangles/s, 133 M pixels/s <---HTC Diamond,Touch pro, HD and Touch pro 2. Nice upgrade.

PowerVR SGX 530 (Palm Pre): 14 M triangles/s, ___ M pixels/s

ATI Imageon Z430 (Toshiba TG01): 22 M triangles/s, 133 M pixels/s <---snapdragon and no drivers release as well so no open GL
This is also in HTC's most advanced Phone. The HD2. It's still below the iPhone 3GS. Playing catch up?

PowerVR SGX 535 (iPhone 3GS): 28 M triangles/s, 400 M pixels/s <---Iphone 3GS. A phone next to a game console

Sony PSP: 33 M triangles/s, 664 M pixels/s <---PSP

PowerVR SGX 540 (TI OMAP4): 35 M triangles/s, 1000 M pixels/s

Nvidia Tegra APX2500 (Zune HD): 40 M triangles/s, 600 M pixels/s <--- Tegra. This much power on an MP3 player. Really?

ATI Imageon _ (Qualcomm QSD8672): 80 M triangles/s, >500 M pixels/s <--- When Do we see this? Will they give us the driver or not?BTW, this is the Snapdragon2 and will be matched by tegra2

Last edited by jethro_static; 02-08-2010 at 07:26 AM.
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  #51  
Old 02-07-2010, 10:06 PM
osssyvan osssyvan is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

Jethro, you say a lot of things that can't be compared in your opinion. Some phones can't be compared because they have bigger screen than iphone but you can compare iphone to ones that have a smaller screen? So iphone screen size is the only one that is good?

Also you say my pc and ps3 cannot be compared as they are so different? Both play games, surf internet, watch movies and ps3 even plays blu-rays that my pc doesn't. I could even install linux on ps3 and make it even more similar to computer.

And on that SD card slot. How about if I have happen to have a camera with a SD(HC) card and I want to check how my pictures look. Oh, I have my nice ipad with a large screen with me but I can't use it because I don't have an adapter with me! Lacking something that can be say'd to be a norm in any reasonable device doesn't give credit to apple.

I'd be just happy if you could just admit that ipad has major lackings that apple should have done differently. That way they would have made a lot better device. You could just put the device in the same line with the others and not say if it is a lacking something that it is a good decision just because apple made it! SD-card slot, USB and webcam are all good examples that people use and don't want to lug around some adapters! And don't forget flash. You might want to watch something like hulu. Does even youtube work without flash?

The ipad could be so much more. Some people might want to use it for writing but they need to buy keyboard addon for it instead they could use their usb keyboards and also then they can't decide which way to orient the screen. And like I said the sd-reader would be good for checking photos on the go and perhaps deleting the ones that aren't good or fixing them a bit. Webcam would be nice so you could use skype or something similar with video. No flash means not much videos on web or flash games. No multitasking = not streaming music and surfing or writing or what ever. The cpu can handle it, it's no excuse and the battery-life might drop a bit but compare it to other devices that have multitasking. They have great battery-life still. And what about HDMI? No hi-def on my telly then... I think that now ipad is just a large ipod touch with bigger res and little more oomph instead of being closer to real computer.
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  #52  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Jethro, you say a lot of things that can't be compared in your opinion. Some phones can't be compared because they have bigger screen than iphone but you can compare iphone to ones that have a smaller screen? So iphone screen size is the only one that is good?

I did not say that bigger or smaller screen cannot be compared to iPhone. Bigger screens on other OSes are not being used properly because there is no app to optimize the screen. And because the screen having no support for apps, It just becomes a drag for the battery. Now a small screen with a high resolution makes it difficult to navigate coz everything becomes smaller but more crisp. Do we need a more crisp screen on a phone that does not even have a good graphic applications? A crisp screen just to view the dialer, calendar, contacts?

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Also you say my pc and ps3 cannot be compared as they are so different? Both play games, surf internet, watch movies and ps3 even plays blu-rays that my pc doesn't. I could even install linux on ps3 and make it even more similar to computer.
A PS3 that will be turned into PC will run ridiculously slow in todays standard bcoz the ram is less than acceptable. 256MB of ram will prolly crawl on multi tasking.

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And on that SD card slot. How about if I have happen to have a camera with a SD(HC) card and I want to check how my pictures look. Oh, I have my nice ipad with a large screen with me but I can't use it because I don't have an adapter with me! Lacking something that can be say'd to be a norm in any reasonable device doesn't give credit to apple.
Is this the only problem why iPad fail? Coz you cannot view your pics right away?

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I'd be just happy if you could just admit that ipad has major lackings that apple should have done differently. That way they would have made a lot better device. You could just put the device in the same line with the others and not say if it is a lacking something that it is a good decision just because apple made it! SD-card slot, USB and webcam are all good examples that people use and don't want to lug around some adapters! And don't forget flash. You might want to watch something like hulu. Does even youtube work without flash?
You should be happy Apple came out with the iPad. If iPad will not exist, Does tablet computing change? Tablet PC is around for a long time and it never took off. We still have the same technology when tablets came out the first time. Now, since iPad came out, device makers are on a race who would give a consumer a better product than the iPad

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The ipad could be so much more. Some people might want to use it for writing but they need to buy keyboard addon for it instead they could use their usb keyboards and also then they can't decide which way to orient the screen. And like I said the sd-reader would be good for checking photos on the go and perhaps deleting the ones that aren't good or fixing them a bit. Webcam would be nice so you could use skype or something similar with video. No flash means not much videos on web or flash games. No multitasking = not streaming music and surfing or writing or what ever. The cpu can handle it, it's no excuse and the battery-life might drop a bit but compare it to other devices that have multitasking. They have great battery-life still. And what about HDMI? No hi-def on my telly then... I think that now ipad is just a large ipod touch with bigger res and little more oomph instead of being closer to real computer.
Seems like you have a lot of demands and you are blaming apple for not having those. Did you find a device that have all of those? If yes, well then there is no reason to bash the iPad because there are a lot of device out there that doesn't meet consumers expectations and only Apple is taking the hit

Last edited by jethro_static; 02-08-2010 at 06:49 AM.
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  #53  
Old 02-08-2010, 03:36 AM
osssyvan osssyvan is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

Actually you said you can't compare advantage to iphone as it has in your opinion too big screen to lug around. Bigger screen and resolution gives better web experience. Also it makes possible for developers to make better apps that utilize the whole resolution especially as smartphones are getting more and more performance and nearing netbook like performance. I personally like those 800x480 resolutions on lots of phones.

And the SD-slot isn't the deal breaker. It is just one of those flaws I don't like. And almost any 8.9 to 10" netbook has those features I wrote about. HDMI is no go on most but otherwise they have loads of features. If apple had just allowed multitasking, added some ports and allowed drag and drop etc. they would have nailed it. And as I have earlier said, ipad is a good thing as it might bring tablets more known to people making more advanced devices cheaper and easier to get. Apple could have just made it right from the start so some other device is not needed . The problem is all the hype. We were waiting on something more and better than ipad. People already have netbooks and I think they wanted ipad to match atleast those.
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  #54  
Old 02-08-2010, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Actually you said you can't compare advantage to iphone as it has in your opinion too big screen to lug around. Bigger screen and resolution gives better web experience. Also it makes possible for developers to make better apps that utilize the whole resolution especially as smartphones are getting more and more performance and nearing netbook like performance. I personally like those 800x480 resolutions on lots of phones.
Oh that one, It is because he is comparing iPhone to a 5 inch PDA(which has voice capabilities) which really isn't used as a regular phone. It is just the same as a regular WM phone that has 5 " screen.More of a smartbook of today. If I put a 5 inch screen on my old HTC Vogue, Can the phone be more technologically advanced? Does my Vogue have a chance to beat the iPhone now?

I agree that bigger resolution is better. BUt the problem is, It is only a resolution. If You see my chart above, A Touch Diamond which is a VGA has the same chip as a Touch HD which is WVGA. DId they give us an upgrade? They use the same hardware and made it WVGA. And developers doesn't wanna be a part of developing Apps for those phones bcoz there is no OpenGL capabilities. I will take Open GL capabilities over flash anytime. This is just me thou. Why? People just worry about hulu, youtube, streaming this and that on the iPhone. There can be an app for all those if people really demand it. BUt not having an OpenGL means that there is no way around it. It's either deal with it or dont.

I agree that iPad has a lot missing. But in this day and age, Consumers do not tell manufacturers what they want. Manufacturers tell consumers what they want.
Now, Windows Phone have rumors of what will it have. Check the news section. MS wants to go in that direction, Can anybody do something? They are all the same. Even Google with their so called "open source". They are tryin to control how open Android should be.
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  #55  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

I will definitely buy an iPad the first day it hits the street. And i don't matter that it don't have an webcam, USB or Flash!

What i really like about the ipad is the IPHONE OSX.....i don't want an Full OSX on such a device.
I like the fact that i don't have to boot the iPad to check my email or surf the web.... it is instantly!!! And this is most important for me on such a device! I don't want to work on the ipad....i need the ipad to surf on the couch in the cafe or anywhere i need it. If i have to work i take my MacBook or my iMac. And for such an device are 64GB of storage more than enough.

The other great thing is that i can use all my bought Apps for the iPhone. This is really great because i like a lot of the games which are released for the iPhone ..... and i'm really happy about that i will play them on this great monitor in the near future.

I can understand people who are not satisfied which the iPad....but hey... i don't know any device which satisfied ALL GROUPS OF CUSTOMERS!

I only say that for ME the iPad is perfect gaget and will replace my Sony Vaio P (which i love of the form factor, but hate because of THE FULL WINDOWS and the poor Battery)
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  #56  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:17 PM
empowering empowering is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

just like your VAIO P or any system running a modern OS in the past 8 years, you can have instant power-on via suspend. I can't remember the last time I booted up my VAIO P from the BIOS.

iPAD, Sony eReaders, SmartPhones and every other device out there just makes suspend the default action for the dimwits (not that you are one, I'm sure most ppl on these forums are highly educated) that haven't figured it out yet, and calls it a new feature.
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  #57  
Old 02-24-2010, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

I'm sorry but u can't compare the "SUSPEND" feature of the Vaio P or any other Laptop with the "STAND-BY" feature of the iPad!

Apple promise a stand-by time of about a month for the iPad! This means for me that i never have to turn it off...and can it use like my iPhone!

Show me an other portable UMPC or portable internet device whit such an stand-by time.

My MacBook 13 loses in stand-by about 1-2 percent an hour.
The Vaio P loses about 5 percent an hour ...and about 10-15 percent a day...even when the device is completly turned off (a hidden feature? ).

I have an iPhone and can browse the web within 10sec.!!! So the iPad will be online in the 3G mode within the same time!

If the Vaio P awakes from SUSPEND i have to wait about a minute till i can use browse the web with the build-in 3G! And even the INSTANT-ON mode of the Vaio P is crap because it can't use the 3G ...only Wi-Fi!

And @ work i only uses my Vaio P or iPhone to Browse the web or use instant messaging!

So for ME the iPad (with 3G ) is perfect!

Last edited by SubZero; 02-24-2010 at 12:53 AM.
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  #58  
Old 03-04-2010, 06:23 PM
MainScreenTurnOn MainScreenTurnOn is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

The point is, People now are asking for a device that will be instant on whenever they want to check for an email real quick.That is just one example. A desktop OS will have to boot for a couple of minutes. connect to the internet. open a browser. log in and out just to check if the email is in or not.

S5 comes out of standby nearly instantly, and i dont think its the only UMPC that does.
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  #59  
Old 03-16-2010, 09:05 AM
amb9800 amb9800 is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

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Originally Posted by jethro_static View Post
To give you an Idea how advanced iPhone's Graphics against the competors.

Nintendo DS: 120,000 triangles/s, 30 M pixels/s
PowerVR MBX-Lite (iPhone 3G): 1 M triangles/s, 100 M pixels/s
Samsung S3C6410 (Omnia II): 4 M triangles/s, 125.6 M pixels/s
ATI Imageon (Qualcomm MSM72xx): 4 M triangles/s, 133 M pixels/s <---HTC Diamond,Touch pro, HD and Touch pro 2. Nice upgrade.

PowerVR SGX 530 (Palm Pre): 14 M triangles/s, ___ M pixels/s
ATI Imageon Z430 (Toshiba TG01): 22 M triangles/s, 133 M pixels/s <---snapdragon and no drivers release as well so no open GL
This is also in HTC's most advanced Phone. The HD2. It's still below the iPhone 3GS. Playing catch up?

PowerVR SGX 535 (iPhone 3GS): 28 M triangles/s, 400 M pixels/s <---Iphone 3GS. A phone next to a game console
Sony PSP: 33 M triangles/s, 664 M pixels/s <---PSP

PowerVR SGX 540 (TI OMAP4): 35 M triangles/s, 1000 M pixels/s
Nvidia Tegra APX2500 (Zune HD): 40 M triangles/s, 600 M pixels/s <--- Tegra. This much power on an MP3 player. Really?

ATI Imageon _ (Qualcomm QSD8672): 80 M triangles/s, >500 M pixels/s <--- When Do we see this? Will they give us the driver or not?BTW, this is the Snapdragon2 and will be matched by tegra2
Btw, much more info about this (+ updated smartphone CPU/GPU performance charts) here:

http://www.techautos.com/2010/03/14/...ocessor-guide/
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  #60  
Old 04-04-2010, 01:19 PM
zesler zesler is offline
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Default Re: Apple iPad Who will buy it?

I think the major market will focus on e-book readers, Kindle Market, old people and iPhone/Apple users.

As for my 2 cents:

I don't like apple mainly because iTunes is clunky (tested with 10k and 20k sound tracks) and uses proprietary formats/technology and is, for the most part, closed. They don't support FLAC, but that's icing on the cake.

The iPad follows that idea, making the only "open" point be their market. There's no USB port, so I can't just load music on a flash drive, and generally I want my device to be able to multi task Although as pointed out there are apps to make it multitask but I've never seen a device nowadays that DOESN'T give you the ability to multitask out of the box. There's also nothing new really introduced into this device, unless you count that fact that its a new apple device. I'm rather get a Lenovo U8 and get something with a keyboard.

My other issue, is that its in what I call the "dead zone" Its too small and not powerful enough to play hard core PC games but its too clunky to fit into a pocket, hence why we have an Iphone/iTouch. I'd rather get a UMPC/PDA to fit and run games I might enjoy OR get a full laptop and do everything on it.

Finally its outdated. I'd rather get my iBoard and play Monopoly with my friends or get an iMat and play DDR [http://www.tomsguide.com/us/iPad-iMa...ews-5968.html]
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